How I Made It

Chris Gibbs w/ Reggieknow

Chris Gibbs, owner of Union Los Angeles, interviews the artist Reggieknow about his journey coming up in the creative industry.

Chris Gibbs:Peace you all. This is Chris Gibbs from Union Los Angeles. I got Reggieknow, man your resume is too long for advertising exec., Illustrator, party promoter, marketing genius. I don't know you tell me. I got Reggieknow on the other line here. What did I miss?

Reggieknow: [Crosstalk] you missed -- the biggest one you missed is my mime rap group called the Silent Treatment.

Chris Gibbs: Oh yes, comedian.

Reggieknow: Yes.

Chris Gibbs: Fashion figure. Your ink.

Reggieknow:Yes sir.

Chris Gibbs: Killertape Network.

Reggieknow:Yes sir. Yes sir.

Chris Gibbs:You know I'm a big fan of yours and honored that we are friends. Honored to be able to call you a friend. And honored that we've been able to work with each other damn near, I don't know. 10 years plus?

Reggieknow:Yeah plus.

Chris Gibbs:Yeah. So I wanted to just have a conversation with you to just -- you know what? I've never even really asked you -- known these things. I kind of just took them for granted. But all right if I was going to try to give someone like a synopsis of you, I'd be like, the dude from Chicago. He was part of Dem Dare if not the-the-the-the leader of Dem Dare, who promoted parties, mixing, hip hop and house in Chicago at a time when that was unpopular.

And did all the flyers for them and then moved on to an incredible career in advertising, working for Burrell. Can you tell me how young Reggie, kind of low life or I don't -- you know, you'll correct me because I'm sure it's not exactly that. But how did a young Reggie growing up in Chicago, navigate that scene really quickly? Or not, you know, not-not-not that you did it quickly, but kind of navigate through that and what led you to advertising?

Reggieknow: Well, I went to -- growing up, I was always an artist. And my mom and I would joke that ever since I could hold a pencil, I was always drawing. And so I knew I wanted to do something with art. And so with different programs I was in in high school and, and-and all that led me to-to art school. And -.

Chris Gibbs:Where did you go? What college?

Reggieknow:Well, I actually it's funny, Kanye and I went to the same Art School.

Chris Gibbs:No way, I didn't even know that. What school?

Reggieknow:Yeah, it's called American Art Academy.

Chris Gibbs:Wow. I didn't know that.

Reggieknow:Yeah, Yeah.

Chris Gibbs:You guys were in school together?

Reggieknow:No, I was ahead. I was [inaudible] [0:03:28]-.

Chris Gibbs:You were ahead of him. You were way ahead of him.

Reggieknow:Yeah, yeah. So I was -- I went there before they did. And it's funny, because when Rob had a teacher that I had, and my artwork was still on the teacher's wall when we went. So it's-it's in the Live Drawing Class. So it was funny for him seeing, m-my tag on the live drawing work. Because it wasn't like graffiti or anything.

Chris Gibbs:Exactly.

Reggieknow:So-.

Chris Gibbs:And would you – sorry to interrupt you, Reggie, I'm going to do it a lot today, you know how -.

Reggieknow:No, no, that's fine. It's fine. I mean we do it a lot.

Chris Gibbs:But, would you back then have considered yourself a graffiti artist?

Reggieknow:Well, once, you know, interesting in high school you can say that's the -- it's pretty much the DNA when you find yourself. I mean, it sets up the backbone of, okay well, where you're going to go. Who you're going to be. And once I get wind of Hip Hop culture I-I-I was, I was really sold. Especially because it was like, fully a culture as far as from emceeing, deejaying, B-boying.

Chris Gibbs:Graffiti.

Reggieknow:What?

Chris Gibbs:Graffiti.

Reggieknow:Yeah, yeah. Graffiti, and even the knowledge element. So those are the five things. And, and-and it was like -- now also you have to understand at a time. And you know, unfortunately for young people, a little bit of a challenge for them to digest a-a time of no internet. So with the time of no internet, it's-it's all like you and what's around you. And what -- and where your energy is and what you are.

You know, I learned later that, oh, I had a -- I had a foresight at a young age. Like oh, I learned what that was. All-all this time. Okay, so wow, here we go. And-and pardon me, I'm all over the place. But I just want to give you the -- how we-how we how we got here. When I was in grammar school, it was the classic Reggieknow thing for you, for me as a, you know, grade school. I used to -- I used to do my homework, and then I would ball it up, and then unravel it, and then turn it in. That's how I did my homework.

Chris Gibbs: Why? Why? I have to know why.

Reggieknow: Because I liked the patterns in the paper. And everyone else paper is like straight and then it's like mine-.

Chris Gibbs: You know, yours-.

Reggieknow: And mine looks this way.

Chris Gibbs:I tell you, you were creative. So-.

Reggieknow: Exactly. And then, and so the-the teacher, she spoke to my mom about that. “Well, you know Reggieknow is a good-is a good student, but you know, when he -- this is how his homework looks when he turns it in.” Because my mom doesn't know that I turn it in like that. And-but. And so, and so things like that. I used to also draw on the border of my homework assignments as well.

So where the holes are in the notebook paper I would draw along that-that border. and to this day, if you can believe me, my mom and I, we still kind of have this debate. Because I feel that that was wrong for me to get in trouble for that. That was, that was wrong. That was the teacher being lazy. And you know, with me being in a single parent home at the time. That's just my mom not having the knowledge or the means of what to do with that, with a child that's an artist.

Chris Gibbs: Right, right. I'm not going to get in between you and your mom. That's for damn sure.

Reggieknow: Yeah, yeah well -.

Chris Gibbs: I'll leave my opinion to my damn self.

Reggieknow: Yes sir. But my argument was, my argument was well, "Mom, what was supposed to happen is they should have like gotten me a folder to illustrate on." Okay, well, you can still be an artist. But because this is teaching you structure and discipline and structure. Put your homework in this folder and you can do whatever you want.

Chris Gibbs:And that's the difference between a good and bad teacher, right? Seeing this thing that's talent and being able to like -.

Reggieknow: Yeah, you don't stifle a child's creativity. You don't tell them they're wrong for being creative and that, that is, sad to say, that also [intros] my Chicago experience. Because when you think about people that are not informed or ignorant about things, or the culture that I was really taken to, they didn't understand it. So they sticked and stoned it. And so that would be the simplest things, you know? Wearing boots in the summertime, or having my hair lock at the time, or-or wearing-wearing a backpack on both arms. You know, these are you know, we're talking about Middle America though.

Chris Gibbs:Yeah, yeah.No doubt.

Reggieknow: With no internet.

Chris Gibbs:Yeah.

Reggieknow: You know, so. And even to this day, like I'm not fond of Chicago, like that. Because of my scarred experience. It's better now. Well, they have the internet. They-they've been able to -- you know, even if you look at, even if you look at Common, the rapper, like how he first started out and then once he got out of Chicago, what he grew into.

Chris Gibbs: Oh, can I borrow a dollar versus -.

Reggieknow: Correct.

Chris Gibbs: What's the second album?

Reggieknow: See, I-I-I was there for the 40 ounce, Common.

Chris Gibbs: Yeah-yeah-yeah Common versus Resurrection.

Reggieknow: Exactly. So I, I-I-I illustrated his first logo, actually.

Chris Gibbs:I didn’t know that. Damn Regg, I didn’t know that. So look, jumping back to Art School. You're going to Art School? What made you decide or what was the transition to get into marketing, advertising?

Reggieknow: When I get to Art School, I'll start by saying, I was like, "Oh man, you know? All this time, I thought I wanted to be an artist." But then, when you have to do art for an assignment, it's-it's-it's-it's just different. It-it kind of took the fun out of it for me. I was like, "Oh, what have I done? You know, I've put all these." But so I-I-I majored in illustration and advertising. And luckily, my school was about commercial art. If I'm correct, I think Virgil went to the Art Institute.

Chris Gibbs: The same school, or a different one?

Reggieknow:No, no. That was that was across the street, which was more-.

Chris Gibbs:Well, he went to school for architecture, right?

Reggieknow: Yeah, yeah. But I-I-I, if I'm correct, I think he went to the Art Institute. And somewhere else after that, where the architecture thing kicked in. But I-I'm not, I'm not sure. But I know with the Art Institute, it's-it's-it's not something that I felt that I can go and get a job after.

Chris Gibbs:Right, like if you had graduated with an Art degree, you didn't necessarily see -.

Reggieknow: Yeah, that doesn't mean -.

Chris Gibbs: A career path. And then also, as you said, you're doing these assignments, and it's not really what you're about. Your art was a lot more personal and-. And you could -- I could argue back then, correct me if I'm wrong. That's again, where ideally some dope professor would pull you aside and be like, "Well, you could be an artist." You know what I mean? And help you hone your skills. But you didn't get that. So you're like, "All right, what can I do to get a job when I get out?"

Reggieknow: Exactly. You know with us, yeah.

Chris Gibbs:When you got out of school? I mean, I know like this is what I don't know and this is what I'm curious to find out. Like, did you go straight to Burrell? Did you work from the, kind of mailroom up? Like how did that work? What was your career art there?

Reggieknow: Well-.

Chris Gibbs: And can before we get into that really quickly, because like Burrell, I think, and I could be wrong. But I know Burrell is one of the top ad agencies. I don't know if they still are. They were a lot more relevant in the '90s, early aughts. They-they would have been like -- it would have been a household name, but I don't hear them spoken of anymore. So just you know, I'm just for anybody listening, Burrell was kind of like -- what's the one for Nike now? What's their big ad agency?

Reggieknow: Wieden and Kennedy.

Chris Gibbs: Burrell was the Wieden and Kennedy of the '90s there?

Reggieknow: The so called African American.

Chris Gibbs:Got it. And is Burrell black owned?

Reggieknow: Yes it is.

Chris Gibbs: Didn’t know that. Okay, there you go, super dope.

Reggieknow: And-and-and Tom Burrell. Oh, okay.When I like -- you know, to get to that to build up to that. I was in commercial art, I'm like okay, because -- so I can work. And I majored in two things that I felt I could get a job out of school. And let me say to the listeners what we're going to hear a lot of; that I'm still unfortunately fighting today and that is the naivety. And unfortunately, being a black man that is a creative. I can tell you, you know, the naivety part was thinking that it was about my creative first. Which it wasn't. But we'll-we'll get to that, which will explain things about Burrell and time et cetera. So I majored in two things. I-I mainly liked storyboard. Storyboard artists made a lot of money. And so I-I-I thought I was going to do that, storyboard art. And-and-and-

Chris Gibbs: A merit of your skill set?

Reggieknow: Yeah. So like, now mind you, because I had been doing a lot of graffiti before art school. Before college, you know, my world was graffiti art. But even during high school, people were what they call [tunnel] running. "Oh, to be a graffiti artist, you know, you got to be up. Your name known and blah-blah-blah, based on New York culture." And as a young teen, I was like, "Yeah, that's-that's cool." But I was like, "No, I want to figure out a way to take these interests that I have and turn it into -- to make a career out of it."

Chris Gibbs: Understood.

Reggieknow: Like, that's just like – that's just way out, back then. I mean, considering that, at the time, the world is not considering rap music, music yet.

Chris Gibbs: Yeah.

Reggieknow: It was like, that's noise. That's not music. You know, that's what that was when I was a teen.

Chris Gibbs: And graffiti wasn't -.

Reggieknow: That wasn't art, you know. Yeah.

Chris Gibbs: Graffiti was vandalism.

Reggieknow: Yeah. And like, I-I can show you like the book I have on the New York City Breakers, who were like, "We want to make B-boying an Olympic sport."You know. Anyway, yeah. So-.

Chris Gibbs: Sorry I don't know if you lost your train of thought or you're just pausing-.

Reggieknow: No, no, no, no, no, no. I, what, that, what you're hearing now is me trying to curb certain things.

Chris Gibbs:Understood.

Reggieknow: Politically.

Chris Gibbs: Yeah.

Reggieknow: Because now again, with the naivety part, everything that I'm speaking on touches on some of those things. Because when you think about, have you ever seen -- have you ever heard or seen the pilot for the show 'Graffiti Rock'?

Chris Gibbs: No.

Reggieknow: Okay, you should look that up.

Chris Gibbs: Okay.

Reggieknow: Michael Coleman or Holman, was the manager of the New York City Breakers.

Chris Gibbs:Yeah.

Reggieknow: He shot a pilot for a Hip Hop show. That was like social.

Chris Gibbs: Wow.

Reggieknow: And -.

Chris Gibbs: Incredible.

Reggieknow: [Indiscernible] [0:19:45] were on it. Like, you should watch the pilot. I mean, it-it-it's like there is no way that show shouldn't have taken off.

Chris Gibbs:Right.

Reggieknow: But again, I've learned later now with the business I'm in. Oh, it's all about who presented it. It's not about the creative of it. That's what I was saying early. So again, going back to thinking that the storyboard artists there's money in that, for sure and in advertising where there, you-you can-you can make it in that. So when I get out of school, I pretty much had to redo my portfolio. And then, so again, younger listeners, just please take these notes. To know-.

Chris Gibbs: I had a portfolio built in college, ready to present it to a job-.

Reggieknow: Correct.

Chris Gibbs: And basically that you had to rebuild the whole portfolio-.

Reggieknow: Yeah, because my portfolio had artwork in it and it had things, you know, the whole thing at the Art Academy, you're-you're working on artwork to prepare for a — to build your portfolio for a career you want to have. And let me also say this. This is another good one. When I was going to the Art Academy, Alex Ross was there.

Chris Gibbs: Oh, wow.

Reggieknow: Do you-do you know who Alex Ross is?

Chris Gibbs: Alexis?

Reggieknow: Alex Ross, if you can, you should Google him while we're doing this. He-he's a famous – he did the comic book – he illustrated – he's a brilliant, like water watercolor artist. He paints — he's just – he did Kingdom Come, which was the DC comic. That's what Jay Z named his album after, because that kind of book is where Batman, Superman, and – Superman; they come out of retirement.

Chris Gibbs: The Justice League.

Reggieknow: Yeah. They come out of retirement and that's why he called his album that. Yeah so Alex Ross, he did Marvels. That was another famous DC novel. So Kingdom Come and Marvels to DC and Marvel, anyway. So when I got out of school, most of my assignments were filled with like still hip hop inspired stuff.

Chris Gibbs: Really?

Reggieknow: I mean, I had – my assignments had stuff centered – centered around public enemy and the jungle brothers and, you know. And so sneaker stuff, but not sneaker stuff in a way where those brands were buying it, because remember they don't like hip hop yet.

Chris Gibbs: Yeah, exactly.

Reggieknow: Like we could say you know, yes, Nike at that time had worked with this edgy director named Spike Lee who had a hip hop aesthetic, but, you know, and that-that was Wieden and Kennedy to, you know, but whatever. So I had to redo my portfolio and it was a dark time for me because trying to get a job and, you know, so I redid my portfolio and that was great. And I-and then I eventually got a – I was an apprentice at an art studio where I was an apprentice. So, you know, what that means like – and so I get to illustrate when they got overloaded. It was an art studio called the Art Bunch I worked at. And when they got overloaded with artwork, they would give the assignments to me. And so I was illustrating things like menus and Chicago Bull stuff for the newspaper-.

Chris Gibbs: Okay. Anything noteworthy?

Reggieknow: Not during that time, but you know stuff for Kellogg’s because you know-you know, the illustrated cartoon on the cereal boxes and you know, stuff like that. But-but nothing – and-and then I-I also –men; you know and so you-you-you know, when you go to the grocery store or back then you would see like these, those big printed signs in a window. So like, let's say it says “Grapes” big. And then it's like a little illustration of grapes. I worked at a place where we made those signs.

Chris Gibbs: [Lucks] for you.

Reggieknow: And I-I went-I went to the interview, I had my portfolio, these people, they were Greek. And I got to the interview, I told the guy about myself, I had my portfolio with me and I was like, “Well, you know, here's my portfolio.” And he was like, “There's no need for us to see that.”

Chris Gibbs: Like you hadn't even shown him the portfolio?

Reggieknow: Yeah. He was like, “We don't need to see that.”

Chris Gibbs: Because-.

Reggieknow: Like that was-that was basically like, we don't do that here. So don't even-.

Chris Gibbs: So how did he ascertain to give you the job?

Reggieknow: Well, it was just based off of me. They could tell I was hungry to work and blah, blah, blah.

Chris Gibbs: Got it. Okay.

Reggieknow: And so, you know, we — it was like kind of [indiscernible] [0:26:45].

Chris Gibbs: I feel you.

Reggieknow: And-and you know, a little bit of drawing things in the corner of the posters and they they spoke Greek all day and smoked cigarettes all day. The only thing they said to me-.

Chris Gibbs: [Indiscernible] [0:27:09] homeboy from the wire.

Reggieknow: The only thing they said to me in English was “That's lunch [crosstalk] [0:27:23], let’s take lunch.” And then, “See you tomorrow.”

Chris Gibbs: Well, you know, so what so what-what came after the Art Bunch?

Reggieknow: So I was freelancing as well while I was working at the Art Bunch. I was still trying to do that. And I – my art teacher knew this art director at Burrell. And so I had a – so this is – yeah, this-this, I-I think I'm like-I think I'm like 18. And so I started doing storyboard work with Burrell and-.

Chris Gibbs: Freelance or you were there?

Reggieknow: Yeah freelance. And my mentor today Alma Hopkins they interviewed her for that-that complex thing, yeah-.

Chris Gibbs: Oh, no way.

Reggieknow: So she saw something in me and was like – and so as I was drawing the storyboards, I was suggesting things with what I was asked to illustrate. And that's when she could tell I had a creative mind; advertising lines. And then, so-so for me drawing the storyboards, then she gave me – she started giving me assignments.

Chris Gibbs: Like smaller projects and [crosstalk] [0:29:17].

Reggieknow: Yeah-yeah like assignments to actually work on which I didn't like. So it was kind of like – it was an interview happening that I didn't know.

Chris Gibbs: Like a test drive. She was test driving.

Reggieknow: Yeah. It was like, the interview was like live. It was like happening with the work, which also explained like, I should have furthered my art education, but it-it started so early. I-I- I’m-I'm in it. You know? So I-.

Chris Gibbs: Yeah but my wife-my wife interned at-at at-at-at Def jam and, you know, impressed them. And basically before she graduated college, she was already like a music manager for MTV. Like she was already in it; she was in college interning. And then all of a sudden she was like, you know, when we first met, she was making like-like triple the amount of money I was making, you know what I mean? So I feel you, it was like [crosstalk] [0:30:28]-.

Reggieknow: But sir, let me-let me tell you what that says though. See, and this is an important part. What Beth and myself, with these positions you're talking about, and now we're-we're-we're-we're leading up to me working at Burell like [indiscernible] [0:30:49] because of the time of no internet and us knowing the culture, you had to know it and you had to live it, back then these days I'm like “What you're a marketing person or a stylist because you can Google?” No, I don't come from that. Like these days you can-you cannot know what you're talking about and be successful. It's like-.

Chris Gibbs: All failing upwards.

Reggieknow: Yeah it's like, “Wow, man – like, well, how did you” — it is like people it's like, you know, that's these times where you don't have to know it, you know? And it's like it's-it's so many people that get those jobs over today, over people like Beth and myself, because of the relationship only, and or because you can Google or you’ve Googled, but you really didn't live it. And so that would explain. And one of my quarrels with my mentor today is – and Burrell and the rest of them was that when I was working at Burrell, it was things that they pretty much shielded me from. So I'm just a creative doing the work.

Chris Gibbs: Got it. You never – when you were at Burrell early on you – they shielded you from the business side?

Reggieknow: Yeah. I was shielded from [crosstalk] [0:32:36] the whole crap that I dealt with after Burell.

Chris Gibbs: Which I would say, and I'm going to speak for you and you'll correct me, but like the young version of you probably would have – yeah I don't want to deal with that. Maybe you're different, but I would – if it was me, I would have been like, “Yeah, let me be creative. You all deal with the bullshit.” But in doing so [crosstalk] [0:32:58] that’s taking away from your training, you need to know both. You need to know both. You can’t just-.

Reggieknow: Yeah and that’s why it would have been best for me to experience that [crosstalk] [0:33:10] because this is the dance. This is part of the main [indiscernible] [0:33:14].

Chris Gibbs: So I'll give you an example, you know, not-not to take it – make it about me, but like when I first started working at Union, like my success at Union has early on; I was like the new young guy there and I was hired to fold t-shirts and ring people up. And over time they started to notice anything like – because people would come and bring, “Hey, we have this new design, we have this new t-shirts jeans or whatever.” And anything I liked early on, super early on would sell, right? So over time they [crosstalk] [0:33:52] things, right?

Reggieknow: That’s [indiscernible] [0:33:55].

Chris Gibbs: I didn't have a crystal ball. I was the customer. I was 19 and that's the age of the customer. And they were in their thirties or forties. So it wasn't like I got this talent. I'm just like, “Oh, and I've figured that out really quickly.” Like it wasn't like I was more talented than anyone else there. I was just – it’s like, “Yo, literally two days ago I was shopping in here.” You know what I mean? And intimidated to walk in the door, you know what I mean?

So I know what we want. It's us that are shopping. And for some reason I acknowledged that early and I've used that throughout-throughout my career. Like, well, a what do the people want? [Thinking] about what I want, right? Or b, and if, I don't know, I better ask someone in my stable who does know, you know, and I've been able to keep that going. And maybe that – we never talked about this, they might've known that. But the other thing is the Union was so small at the time. I mean, it was literally two people in a 400 square foot store.

I had to know everything. I had to start learning all of it, how to do an order, how to do a PO, how to – all that stuff, you know what I mean? And at the time I wouldn't have liked it. And I can only say this now, but in doing that, and I'm fast forwarding math years later, like many years later, but fast forward, damn near 15, 20 years later, when I got the opportunity to buy the store and take over, I knew all of — I knew everything. It wasn't like I was just the buyer and store and I'm traveling to Japan and Europe and I'm doing all the fun and cool stuff.

I know how to like do our books. I know how to, you know, everything, the gate got broken I know how to fix it. Like-like I knew it all, because as a small business, you had to know everything; you had to be able to do everything. So when I got my chance to buy the store, I knew – like I was really confident because I knew how to do everything. It would – like whereas someone else would have been like, “Okay I'm here. I just bought the store. I have no idea what to do with it.”

You know what I mean? I already knew because I already had the relationship with the vendors. I know how to fix something. And you know, Eddie; who I worked for here in LA, he really taught me that because he was like, know, for example, to this day, when-when our roof leaks at the store, we don't call the landlord. He gets it fixed. You know what I mean? When anything, whatever we need we're self-sufficient and that's been able to-I've been able to use all those tools. So, sorry that was a digression-.

Reggieknow: No, no buddy, it still relates to what we're talking about just-.

Chris Gibbs: Like, they robbed you of that. They robbed you of that other side of things. You know what I mean?

Reggieknow: Yeah. Because I-I, you know, like with what we're-what you just presented, you know, again, that young Chris, that young [Bethlehem], that young Reggieknow? Yeah. It, you know, we bled culture. And-and you couldn't just – it, you know, you couldn't – like the only thing brands, the only thing they can do back then is look through the Vital Source magazine. Like if you didn't live it that was your only window [indiscernible] [0:37:18]. And so to-so-so to-to talk about Tom Burrell for a hot second, who started Burrell and I think-I think his first client was a cigarette.

I think it was Marlboro is a cigarette company. And a quote from Tom Burrell back then was when he started Burrell was “Black people, aren't dark skinned, white people.” And that was him saying like, well, advertising to us is a little different. And he wasn't a writer in advertising that started from the mail room and worked his way up. And so did Rob; Rob, same thing. Rob started in the [mail room]. But crazy McDonald's was one of Tom Burrell's first big clients. And-.

Chris Gibbs: So we’re-we’re – Is Burrell like is that Calvin is Calvin Burrell?

Reggieknow: Yes, it is. Yeah, that’s Burrell-.

Chris Gibbs: You know probably younger people on this don’t know who Calvin is.

Reggieknow: Yeah, that-that was about the guy, the kid [indiscernible] [0:38:46].

Chris Gibbs: Okay, okay.

Reggieknow: So McDonald's said to Tom Burrell, well, they were afraid of making commercials with just black people. They said, “Well, we don't want people to think our food is dirty.”

Chris Gibbs: Wow. Yeah.

Reggieknow: You know, so – but you know, these-these days we just pretend those things aren't around. But so as a young teen working at Burrell, doing advertising and marketing, I was – I started as a junior art director and I-.

Chris Gibbs: Regg, I think the mail room player.

Reggieknow: Well, you know, it-it-it was, you know, but you remember, I had already been working with my mentor, so-.

Chris Gibbs: [Indiscernible] [0:40:09].

Reggieknow: You know, she's like, “Okay, you're-you're-you're ready.” And you know, when I get that call, I, you know, I was [ready]. And so-.

Chris Gibbs: What’s your first project or what's the first noteworthy project?

Reggieknow: Well, I think we could say – but I don't know, but that didn't happen. The first thing that I got produced was a commercial for partnership in [indiscernible]. Yeah, that was the first thing I art directed and I believe that got produced. And even when I get to Burrell where the things took a turn was when they were – Burrell had already had the Sprite account; Sprite being under Coca Cola. And so and they were kind of doing the right thing. The first commercial Burrell did for Sprite had Curtis blowing. So it's Curtis blow. And then-.

Chris Gibbs: You know that [indiscernible] [0:41:49].

Reggieknow: Yeah, and so — and then after that they – Burrell did The Kid ‘n’ Play commercial and Heavy D in the [indiscernible] [0:42:01] made the rest Heavy D. And-and-and again-.

Chris Gibbs: So when did they say that-.

Reggieknow: Both of those groups started out doing hardcore hip hop, you know, what people don't, nobody knows-.

Chris Gibbs: Yeah. But when did they say, “Regg, touch this break commercial.”

Reggieknow: Say that again.

Chris Gibbs: When did they say, “Regg we need you to touch this break commercial-.”

Reggieknow: Oh well, they said, “Well, we're-we're going to give you this assignment.” And so, you know, you-you-you get assignments every month every, you know. And so this particular time – because I had done some McDonald's things and you know, just, you know. And then I got a Sprite assignment and it's like, “Okay, so with Sprite we kind of-we kind of use like, this-this hip hop thing.” And I was like, “Okay, well, when you say hip hop, what do you mean?” I’m like “Well, you know-.”

Chris Gibbs: Hip hop.

Reggieknow: I’m like “Okay hip hop from how I know it or-or,” so I just – I-I ran with how I know it and like yourself at Union it's like then birthed real – like more hardcore hip hop, showing up in big brains because at the time we had to remember, now we're talking early nineties, like actually we're talking actually 90. And so like Dem Dare was going at the time and a polo Segway, the stadium line with Ralph Lauren a priced line came out in 90.

Chris Gibbs: Got it.

Reggieknow: Even-even though everything says 1992 on it, but the stadium line actually launched in 90.

Chris Gibbs: Wow.

Reggieknow: To be on time for the ‘92 Olympics.

Chris Gibbs: Got it. Is that where Dan and Dave came from? Or was that later?

Reggieknow: Yeah, that-that was, yeah. The Dan and Dave was stadium, the P wing all that stuff was [stadium] [0:44:36].

Chris Gibbs: Got it. Got it.

Reggieknow: And so in that-that really opened the doors of all this flash with the stadium line.

Chris Gibbs: So you were -were you, sorry, I got to pause for a second. So Reggie walking into Burrell on a Thursday afternoon in the 90s is he wearing like polo boots and-.

Reggieknow: Yeah-yeah the polo thing was happening.

Chris Gibbs: Head to toe?

Reggieknow: Yeah-yeah that was all like going ‘90, you know? And that-that was, yeah. And-and you know, it's funny. See, when we-when we talk about this idea of streetwear, again, this is also the beginning of that, because street wear what they call streetwear now was Timberland, Carhartt [crosstalk] [0:45:32]. You know, these were things that-.

Chris Gibbs: Well, street wear didn't exist yet in 90s.

Reggieknow: Exactly. But if [crosstalk] [0:45:41]-.

Chris Gibbs: But you're not that agey but you’re a little older than me.

Reggieknow: Yeah so if we’re going to label it then [crosstalk] [0:45:46]-.

Chris Gibbs: I would have been in – I would have been a think a sophomore in high school. And sad but true. I wish I could lie. I probably would have been wearing like airbrushed overalls with brimstones.

Reggieknow: Yeah. See that, that was-that was-that-that shirt King thing, you know, which was-.

Chris Gibbs: Maybe like exhaust denim.

Reggieknow: Oh okay. Yeah. Yeah.

Chris Gibbs: I know Reg. I know you're above the fray on that shit.

Reggieknow: Yeah-yeah no it was just that those [crosstalk] [0:46:23] brands, they just didn't have it down yet because a lot of them, they were just – it was just really copying [indiscernible] [0:46:36]. And not at that pretty much, no. So we'll wear and blah, blah, blah. Not a gear walker wear, [adding] wear, you know, it was just all like, you know-you know, but again, before those urban brands, the hip hop thing to do was to take something and spin it to make it your own.

Chris Gibbs: Yeah.

Reggieknow: That's what-that was a hip hop thing to do.

Chris Gibbs: Yeah.

Reggieknow: You know? So [crosstalk] [0:47:08] like the idea of sampling a record is the [crosstalk] [0:47:11] same thing.

Chris Gibbs: Which is like made for the outdoors, which no urban kid would have been doing, not, you know, regularly and making it for the street and wearing it in a different way and you know, yeah. So-.

Reggieknow: Right. So that's-that's like we can call that is the [crosstalk] [0:47:27].

Chris Gibbs: Same thing [crosstalk] [0:47:28] was made for the way it's become famous. You know, like that-that stadium collection what was made to be worn that way.

Reggieknow: Yeah. And-and-and that's-and that's what makes it, you know, with me being a collector of vintage polo and people – and collectors that I know. Like I've said, it's like, well, that's something you can't remake because today the brand re-released, or re-releasing all the stuff that I grew up with, but there-there, the context is gone. Yeah. But their approach to it is not-it's not doing it in a route [crosstalk] [0:48:18] one way because they're chasing Supreme and they're not-they're not doing that. They could – it can be done better, but I can't [crosstalk] [0:48:28] someone like me can’t be hired there. Like [Nick] Revlon is not going to hire me because it's a-it's a game that’s played; but anyway.

Chris Gibbs: I want to – I don't know if this is a digression, but it will be one of many that we'll do. It'll get edited out I'm sure. But it's funny, Adam and I have this thing that we've kind of, we-we talk about, which is we both, you know, Adam who I, you know, I work with quite a bit. We both came out of hip hop, Adam and I are both like, I mean, he-he still does it. He puts out records. But when I was in college, I was like, you know, an — a novice beat maker, you know? So I was big into sampling. I still have like a really big record collection. And so a major part of hip hop is sampling, sampling, old shit, re-editing it making it new, right. That's like the beats of hip hop, right. [Crosstalk] [0:49:24]-.

Reggieknow: It’s like-it’s like [indiscernible] [0:49:26].

Chris Gibbs: Well, you were just talking about theirs, really the fashion version of the same thing.

Reggieknow: Same thing.

Chris Gibbs: Sampling Patagonia, which you don't really fuck with, right? And then [crosstalk] [0:49:37] not you, but like [crosstalk] [0:49:39].

Reggieknow: No, back then, yeah.

Chris Gibbs: Yeah. You know what I mean? Like, or whatever, like we're sampling this-this-this style that's not really made for us and then re-appropriating in a new way making it ours.

Reggieknow: Right, right.

Chris Gibbs: Which is, you know, I guess it's weird and I-I’ll say this, but we’ve got to get off of it, because we could have a whole two hour thing on that. Like it begs the question, the difference between urban and streetwear, right? Like w-where do those lines fall? But that’s a-that’s a two week course, not a [inaudible] [0:50:23]-.

Reggieknow: And you know what? I-I – honestly, I wouldn’t be mad at the idea of the concept of the streetwear thing. I wouldn’t be mad at it. But -- like which is why I brag about yourself, because the-the part-the part that sours me is when, these set unsaid rules of who gets to eat.

Chris Gibbs: Yeah.

Reggieknow: Off of what was created. You know, it’s like I-Its-it’s this-it’s this funny game that happens, and even with the music world that I’m in, it’s the same thing.

Chris Gibbs: Yeah

Reggieknow: You know but like you said, that’s a whole other [inaudible] [0:51:20]-.

Chris Gibbs: Okay, so-so I want to fast forward a little bit. I’ll say this, so you’re at Burrell, you’re going up the ladder, you get given the Sprite campaign, you launch, you know one of the dopest commercial series for Sprite, with Voltron, and you bring in all the dope rappers. Look, a lot has been said about that, I think it’s really relevant, I think people can go google that shit. I want to move beyond that, right? That’s you know, if you don’t mind, you know what I mean-?

Reggieknow: No-no that’s fine, but just in a quick summary about that. Of -- like the reason why I brought up that-that year, it was 1990, because rap was starting to be liked by white America, white teens.

Chris Gibbs: Yeah.

Reggieknow: So now it’s looked at different, and -- so when you think about when Fab 5 Freddy went to BET for a rap show, a rap video show, and they dissed it, and then he went to MTV and they liked it, and thought it was dope energy, and that’s the birth of Yo MTV Raps.

Chris Gibbs: Right

Reggieknow: And then of course the BET Viacom, same white company, now we want to do Rap City and Johnny Come Lately. And then why this is relevant to what we’re talking about, because at the time of Yo MTV Raps, again, all of this is all happening at the same time. Rap, in that 90’s time, it started to get that look. And now you got to-you got to accept it, you got to mess with it. And then, on top of that, now, the MTV program itself – a lot of it – a lot of rap music is starting to get played on MTV in general.

Chris Gibbs: Right, now just-.

Reggieknow: So now, we don’t need a Yo MTV Raps.

Chris Gibbs: Right.

Reggieknow: And so-so with rap arriving, but I’m just going to say that, the-the -- an important part about that Sprite time, in my doing that. So I’m creative director at this point, and my career shot pretty fast, from junior – I mean, it-it-it shot up the ladder that quick, because – it makes sense because, well look at what hip hop was doing.

Chris Gibbs: Right-right. And you’re-and you’re the man

Reggieknow: A-a-and it wasn’t just me putting rappers in it, you know. It was like, conceptually, wh-what also was connected, so when you think about the Wild Style campaign with Charlie Ahearn and Fab 5 Freddy on the set. Crazy, like all those cultural nuggets that you just had to know, were in the commercial. Just like with what you and I do now. We do the same thing now, you know. Like things that you and I create, have layers of like not to like real cultural things-,

Chris Gibbs: They’re called Easter eggs now Reg.

Reggieknow: Yeah, but you had to like, know the culture to get those things. So that could close that chapter-.

Chris Gibbs: Alright, real quick. So, when and why did you leave Burrell, and where did you go next?

Reggieknow: And this, goes to that part. So, I had gotten many job offers, while at Burrell, with the Sprite stuff happening, and you know I had, done award winning McDonald’s stuff at that time, you know it’s like I’m-I’m going. And you know, it’s interesting, my credit director-,

Chris Gibbs: I want to pause right there, and I think we touched on this, but I just want to make sure, so sorry to cut you off-.

Reggieknow: No-no, please

Chris Gibbs: But I think, if I’m hearing this, I feel like, obviously it was a windy road. Obviously there was some turbulism-turb-turbulism-?

Reggieknow: Turbulence.

Chris Gibbs: Turbulence, sorry not Turbulism. I don’t know what the fuck turbulism is, but there was some turbulence. But I-I feel like, if I look at like the parts of your career, and how they got put together, you’ve got this love for art, right? That you’ve had, that you’ve been able to like nurture since you were young. And you go to school for that, to-to help make that a career. That’s happening on a parallel track with, yo, you’re an 80’s baby so, you’re into hip hop, I mean, you’re a black kid from inner-city Chicago, most likely you’re into hip hop, [house music], but you’re in hip hop, and you were there, right at the kind of beginning of it. And your sensibility has allowed you to really appreciate it in a way not everybody does, I would say. But – and fast forward, you now have a career in-in-in this Ad agency or a growing career, and you’re able to apply those two things in a-in a unique way, right? A, you’re an artist you got in there, you got into the Ad agency.

B being able to storyboard, now you’re in their storyboard, and you see that they’re working on things that maybe aren’t like directly hitting your interests, but they are close. And you’re like, hey, I see you guys are – you’re kind of giving your input, whether it’s overtly, or passively , you know, and someone in there acknowledges, like oh, shit, this kid is coming from the world we’re trying to advertise to-. Let me see if I can bring him along, help him out. You know what I mean?

Reggieknow: Yeah, a-a-and though that, it was also a thing of my mentor hearing and seeing that I have a creative brain-,

Chris Gibbs: No doubt].

Reggieknow: As far as – just like creatively solving problems.

Chris Gibbs: Understood.

Reggieknow: And like, oh okay, he’s a thinker, he-he can think-.

Chris Gibbs: Understood-understood. So then, you know, I think the culmination or at least the-the touch point of your career would have been the Sprite commercial. Where all those things really come into play. And for me, if I were a bit younger, I would want to hear the thing the things I would want to extract from this is like, hey, how do I take things that I’m organically into, and make them part of my career? And that takes a little bit of obvious talent. It takes a lot of hard work, but you can still like nurture these things that are close to you and you know, you-. I think, you know, timing’s a big part of it too. You know what I mean?

And I think you were at the precipice of a cultural explosion, through the lens of hip hop, that you know, I don’t know if we are there today with whatever’s happening, I couldn’t use, like actually, you know, I don’t – this – I don’t mean for this to be negative, but you know, what happened with hip hop and how it became – how it started as this counter-culture sub-culture thing, and has blown up to basically be, you know pop culture, like the number one cultural thing, top three in the world, is hip hop, and it came from like counter-culture. Maybe I’m getting old, but I don’t-I don’t see a way for those things to happen right now.

Reggieknow: Meaning something like that, coming along again, or-?

Chris Gibbs: Yeah. I mean I’m sure it will, but right now I’m – again, it might be a part of me being old but-.

Reggieknow: No.

Chris Gibbs: I’m not seeing that – I’m not seeing a sub-culture, right? And I think because of the internet, sub-cultures don’t really exist the way they used to at the very least.

Reggieknow: Well they can’t-they can’t live because they – because of time.

Chris Gibbs: Right.

Reggieknow: Like here-here’s humans – the human relationship is-is-is failing. The human relationship is failing because we are -- humans are chasing technology, and we’re not living separate from them. We’re-we’re chasing the speed of information. And so with us doing that, we don’t-we don’t care about what people – the things people have to say. Nobody cares about – it’s like no one wants to talk. It’s-It’s no -- the communication. So, the – so with that being, you know, w-w-w -- I’ll just speak to this part, then we’ll come back to where we were. But like when I was doing the Adam Factory thing, and working with these-,

Chris Gibbs: I’d – is there an in between Burrell and Adam Factory?

Reggieknow: Oh definitely.

Chris Gibbs: Okay.

Reggieknow: Alright, so – but going to those record labels and movie companies etcetera, you know people are like – well – you know, people ask that question, will there-will there be another Marvin Gaye or Michael Jackson and bla-bla-bla, you know these iconic, Curtis Mayfield, you know like, and it’s like -- and I was like well, I-I-it-it sounds more like a no, but I’m-I’m basing it off of because everything technology you can make everything so perfect, it’s no room for – to-to learn and to grow something.

Chris Gibbs: Yeah.

Reggieknow: And that’s why even like now, with me creative directing, the Cabletech Network, younger rappers are making rap music that goes against the rules of song making. There is no sixteen bars, and here’s the hook, and like, it’s a whole other world of rap music. So with what you’re saying about subcultures, well they are here, but it’s so much information, you-you just won’t know it’s there.

Chris Gibbs: Right

Reggieknow: So like for instance, like it’s-it’s –like its rappers that I’m never going to hear its rappers I’ve never heard because rap music, because that’s not the-the wave that I’m on.

Chris Gibbs: Yeah it’s not-,

Reggieknow: I-I-I know, and maybe it’s because you’re older, you are incorrect my friend. Because I know, all the younger rappers that are doped up.

Chris Gibbs: Yeah

Reggieknow: So Aldovino, he’s like in his 20’s like a lot of the killer tape rappers are like very young. It's only a few of them that are older. You know, the Planet Asia and, you know it’s only a few of them-a few that are older, but, a lot of them are really young, and they are making-they are making what, 3 Feet High and Rising was. They are making that now.

Chris Gibbs: Wow.

Reggieknow: An abstract like you know, what Prince Paul was – you know those Prince Paul remixes back then, you know they li -- they introduce like we don’t just sample James Brown, we sample like Sesame Street, Sound Effect Records. Look at their EPK.

Chris Gibbs: Yeah.

Reggieknow: And so -- which all makes sense, oh, they’re from Long Island? Roc Marciano is from Long Island.

Chris Gibbs: Yeah.

Reggieknow: So with that EPMD, so whatever was in the water, That PE as well, from long Island, like the art of sampling, these people I’m -- who I’m talking about, that’s the art of sampling, not just sampling you know, so all that to say, yeah. It-it -- all those cultures you’re talking about, they exist, but they’re just buried, and it’s just so much of it.

Chris Gibbs: Yeah.

Reggieknow: And the machine that owns the platforms, they get to push out what – they’re just pushing out what they own, and-and forcing you to swallow it whole. So-so that, a-and that’s the machine, the machine has always been the machine. But now, we have the internet, I don’t have to, and many others, don’t have to go by what the machine is saying. But anyway, so after Burrell, I was invited to have my own Ad agency.

Chris Gibbs: Oh wow.

Reggieknow: Yeah.

Chris Gibbs: I didn’t know that either.

Reggieknow: Yeah, called [The Additive]

Chris Gibbs: Okay.

Reggieknow: So, you know, it was a-,

Chris Gibbs: What was your first big client?

Reggieknow: Actually, with the Additive, Truth Anti-Smoking was our longest running client at the time. And I had my own Ad agency for ten years. And so, through The Additive, which was-,

Chris Gibbs: I met you when you were doing The Additive, I know- I remember.

Reggieknow: Correct-correct. And so I was – we were – this was during a time where, so called general market agencies, were starting urban agencies.

Chris Gibbs: Got it.

Reggieknow: And so Leo Burnett had vigilante [indiscernible] [1:07:05] spike DVD. You know, so Arnold Worldwide who [created] “Drivers Wanted” for Volkswagen. Arnold had The Additive, and so – and so – and then it was -- and then we purchased a percentage of it back, so that we would be the owners, so that now the agency was black owned.

Chris Gibbs: Got it.

Reggieknow: And so we had Truth Anti-Smoking, we had-,

Chris Gibbs: What year did you start The Additive?

Reggieknow: 2000.

Chris Gibbs: Okay.

Reggieknow: Yeah, and so I had moved to New York. So we had Truth Anti-Smoking, we worked on things with Amtrak, but some of our clients was Truth, Reebok and Volkswagen. And - with Reebok, luckily we were doing the urban advertising at the time. It was actually – and it was so funny, because the whole sneaker re-release thing, wasn’t around like that yet.

Chris Gibbs: Yeah.

Reggieknow: And so my going to Reebok, and saying to them, “Yo, you need to bring these sneakers back.” The head guy laughed out of the room. And then he went and got the Alien Stomper. You know that sneaker?

Chris Gibbs: Yeah.

Reggieknow: And he brought that in the room as a joke saying, “Ha-ha, I guess we should bring these back too.’’ Like, see this shows how social media and all that didn’t exist yet.

Chris Gibbs: Yeah.

Reggieknow: And it’s like wow, you fool.

Chris Gibbs: Yeah. [Laughter]

Reggieknow: You fool. And it’s like-like Rob and I presented them, bringing back the aerobic, what they call the Freestyle sneaker. When I was young it was called the Aerobic. But-.

Chris Gibbs: Is that 5411?

Reggieknow: No, the 5411 was a track sneaker. The aerobic, you know, the one that was popular during the time of -- because aerobics had came out-.

Chris Gibbs: Yeah-yeah.

Reggieknow: And-and you know, it was things I didn’t even get to do with Reebok, because it was – I learned it was ran by soccer moms. I’m like, “Oh, that’s why you guys aren’t dope?” And – yeah, so it was funny, years later that [inaudible] [1:10:22] man, these brands man.

Chris Gibbs: So when did you do the 50-Cent thing?

Reggieknow: That was during the Additive, because I knew a guy at Sprite was working with Vitamin Water, and so – and him knowing my work on Sprite, they had this relationship, it’s like okay well, 50-Cent had invested in it, and it’s like, all right, so what do we do? Vitamin Water hadn’t done any advertising yet, it’s like quirky drink, with this, you know, dry label-.

Chris Gibbs: Yeah.

Reggieknow: Stark look, and then rapper shot nine times. I don’t really-. And so-so the campaign Rob and I did was, “Okay, well, 50-Cent, when you’re not being 50-Cent and you’re Curtis Jackson, we’re going to concentrate – that’s where we’re going to put our attention. When you’re not.”

Chris Gibbs: Got it.

Reggieknow: Like you’re just being a regular guy. And so that was the campaign. And-and that was [indiscernible] [1:11:34]. And you know one thing I was prized at, with working with rap artists and the brands is, the artist felt in safe hands, because they could tell I knew about, and lived hip hop culture. They knew th-their brand was safe with me. And then, the brands felt safe because, oh okay, well he’s a professional advertising guy, so that’s why I’m the best at both worlds. So that’s why, I-I-it’s needed when – you know it’s funny, I text with Travis Scott a little while ago, and this was – this is about action figure stuff, but even situations like that, me being a liaison to help when they do things like with McDonald’s and stuff like that. Let me help you make it where it can be like dope for real, and not just coming across as something, you know-.

Chris Gibbs: Right-right, so here’s my question, and this question might seem like damn motherfucker, I just-I just spent the last hour answering this, but I want it – but -- and you have, but I want it to be direct

Reggieknow: Yes sir.

Chris Gibbs: What have you done in – how has your experience helped put you in a place, where you can confidently answer those questions and guide people through this? Is that-is that – does that question make sense?

Reggieknow: Halfway.

Chris Gibbs: Well, help me make sense man.

Reggieknow: Let’s see, so you’re saying like – well what]?

Chris Gibbs: What have you learned, and what can you tell somebody who’s listening to this, watching this, for them to navigate things the way, let’s say that Travis Scott is calling you, and maybe wanting a little bit of help on navigating his McDonald’s relationship?

Reggieknow: Well, these are –these times are different, where with your phone, you can find a sample, loop it, make the beat, record yourself, and shoot your video, and put it out online. You -- I-I-it can all be done with your phone, today.

Chris Gibbs: With a thumb [laughs] with a thumb.

Reggieknow: Yeah, pretty much. And – so, one thing I feel to – what contributed to the careers of like you, Beth and myself [Inaudible] [1:14:56]. My friend Riley, he-he-he works for EA, designing video games. It’s-it’s a time where – you-you -- it’s a balance of to not be totally absorbed and led by technology]. Because in doing that only, you’re leaving yourself out of it. And you’re not doing enough diving within, and you’re not doing enough of taking in what’s around you, because our face is in our – our-our face stays in our phone our face stays in technology. And so I’m saying up again, that the balance will help contribute to, having some of what we had, because of things we lived, that we brought into what we were doing. And if you don’t unplug it away, you’re not leaving any room for that. And this is not an anti-technology speech-,

Chris Gibbs: Yeah, I get it.

Reggieknow: It is just – it’s-it’s really living to the fullest.

Chris Gibbs: Yeah.

Reggieknow: Living is not just your phone and technology, like remembering that these things are tools let re – let me remember too, these are tools to help me with what I’m doing. So, let me start here first with things I want to do, and technology will aid me with that. And so-.

Chris Gibbs: So, that’s good advice, I think that’s really good advice.

Reggieknow: Because that-that’s what’s going to start with-.

Chris Gibbs: That is the worst [crosstalk] [1:17:27]-.

Reggieknow: That’s what’s going to help you as – to develop what you need. Go ahead.

Chris Gibbs: That’s the worst segway [phonetic] [1:17:32] ever, but I want us to talk about this a little bit because it kind of – so actually – I’m actually, I’m going to pause that. I’m going to move forward and I-I already know I am more natural and organic and [almost] Segway. So, I hit you up last year or early – early this year maybe. No, no, no, last year, for sure last year, “Hey got this Jordan coming out, I really want you to help me on it. We got to figure out marketing,” and at the time it was just like, “Hey, you and I have worked together on our hobbies, a ton,” right. We’ve done a couple of videos together, a couple of projects, T-shirts, we have fun, we’ve never really been able to like work, work together. Like, “Yo, Reggie, I need you as a marketing man on the project.”

And most of that has to do with, as I told you in the past like, you know, union’s very DIY and it’s pretty small. You had the small imprints so I wanted to respect your time. I know you would have shared your time with me, but you know-. But with the Jordan project coming about, I knew that’s something that your time would have been respected. So I hit you up for the Jordan thing early on, like I said last year. We started spitballing ideas and you know, one of my favorite of all time things you’ve done is I-I call it this day anime, which is what it used to be called. You know, you have changed the name to-.

Reggieknow: It was a good day.

Chris Gibbs: It was a good day. I’m sorry I’m still stuck in this day anime but-.

Reggieknow: No, no, I get it-.

Chris Gibbs: It was a good day. The anime you did 12 years ago?

Reggieknow: Yes [indiscernible] [1:19:18], it was a concept back then, because again, my being into toys and anime and [indiscernible] play and early all those things. But again, many of those things during the time where the internet wasn’t like it is now, because again [Voltron] [1:19:41] is an anime.

Chris Gibbs: So you build – you did this and I you know – you did this incredible, I guess I’ll call it like a pilot you know, which blew me away to this day; just all the layers. And at some point while we were spitballing I was like, Yo man, I'll tell you what I thought because I don't even know if we've had this conversation. At some point, I was like I'm-I’m blessed, you know what I mean. You've tutored and mentored my, one of my oldest son in drawing because he's really into anime. You get, you know, you're in constant communication, “Have you checked this anime? Have you checked that?” And you're always kind of telling me to tell him and every once in a while you guys will chat. You gave him some really dope instructions on because he's very much into a lot of the things you were -- still are, you know. He's 16 but he draws a lot and he's really into anime. And I was like, “Oh, let me – let me link you to Reggie,” because I'm not that into anime, you know. So now we watch things like Death Note because of you and Ajin, you know. You’ve, sidebar, you fuck me up. Because the first thing you told us to watch was Death Note. You should have held onto that, because now everything that I watch gets compared to Death Note, and nothing's as good. And it’s-.

Reggieknow: I-I-I honestly, I have to say to you sir that I know, you know, Adult Swim and all this and that and all these, you know, skip all that. They're late.

Chris Gibbs: Yeah.

Reggieknow: But I -- you know, anime the genre is so-.

Chris Gibbs: Yeah.

Reggieknow: Large of the different pockets and types of anime, you know-

Chris Gibbs: [Indiscernible] [1:21:38] in the –

Reggieknow: To have what they like. I like anime dramas, but-.

Chris Gibbs: So does Solomon, but like he’s-.

Reggieknow: Death Note is, Death Note is, I mean it's a religion. That's just how, I mean it's just [inaudible] [1:21:54].

Chris Gibbs: Anyhow.

Reggieknow: [Indiscernible] [1:21:56] anyway.

Chris Gibbs: So I was like, you know, I'm now seeing my young 16 and 14 year old being really into anime, and unlike then -- I guess it's not -- I guess, when you were into it and younger, it was also kind of part of hip hop culture. So there would have been a cool side of it. But then there's this gap in the middle where I would say, up until about let's say-let's say 10 years ago, like, and I'm not saying this in a judgmental way, but up until about at least 10 years ago, maybe five, whatever, like if you were a kid that was into anime, you were a super nerdy kid. Now it's become -- maybe that's the answer to like, well what's the new thing that's become subculture to pop culture? Anime. And cosplay and comic books. That was some nerdy shit. And now like, it's pop culture. It's now driving the economy in the movie world and you know. So I, you know, I was like, “Yo,” and I just, it dawned on me, Reggie did this anime, anime has now become pop culture, Yo Reg, would you rewrite this anime through the lens of our Jordan release? And I asked you, and at first you were apprehensive, but-.

Reggieknow: Yeah-yeah, it-it caught me off guard actually. Like you know, so for one, like, you know, I-I, as a creative, I have things that I work on that may, you know, you work on a lot of things that you're not personally into, you know. And then, and then sometimes those things that come along that are closer to home. So, and some of them are therapeutic. Like, so, with me doing a creative directing for the Killertape Network is kind of like I need it because it represents a type of rap music that I like, that's spirited firm, that has the DNA of-of the 90s, you know, which people will say, “Oh, that's East Coast sound,” but no - it's just a tip off. But anyway, so that – so even in comes the things you and I have worked on over the years. You know it's like it-it, it's, it's -- I get it’s, it’s, it’s close to home, it’s going to be something I enjoy doing, like all that stuff is important.

Chris Gibbs: Yeah.

Reggieknow: Liking what you're doing. And then me being a fan, a Chris Gibbs fan, and like, you know, man, this guy did it. I'm just, I'm so taken by the story, your story, and it’s like anytime I can weave in the in that story. It's like yeah, this is the Chris Gibbs’ story. I'm there. And so-.

Chris Gibbs: What I loved-what I loved what you did with, with the anime in particular. So you, you lent us your world, right, it was a good day world and characters, you wrote it, you drew the animation, you directed it, we reached out to Arthell, who is coincidentally owns a black owned animation house based in Japan. But what I loved was that the story you wrote poked fun at sneaker culture in a way that made it feel really honest, you know what I mean? We live this every day and it's fun and frustrating and sad and all. But you were able to poke fun in that in a beautiful way. So I appreciated your writing of that. And for those of you haven't seen it, please go check out you know, It was a Good Day: Hustle and Motivate. It’s [crosstalk] [1:26:06].

Reggieknow: Hustle and Motivate is [crosstalk] [1:26:08]-.

Chris Gibbs: For the Jordan fours, but then COVID and you know, we all know that, you know, like, the touch point is George Floyd, but as black men living in this country, we know that there, unfortunately, are many George, you know, George Floyds before that and unfortunately, there have been many since and there, unfortunately, continue to be them - be more. But, that happens. I want to hear because we didn't talk about this. We have, we ended up having a solution or offered a put a,-a-a take on it. You were the one that really ideated the, what ended up becoming spread, The Spread Love campaign where we really kind of gave back to the community, and we could talk about that in a second. But I just -- we never talked about, like, how you felt about that moment, personally, and-and just what's going on right now. I want, you know we've never really talked about that. I'd love to hear your take on just, I don't know, I know it's a lot of unch-.

Reggieknow: No, no it's-it's just, here, okay. Let's start with, like it or not, right now everyone is numb to black men being killed in general by racists and or police. People may not admit that is so frequent that it's just normal. It's just another one. And the gentleman that was jogging was that in Atlanta? The gentleman's name who was jogging and was gunned down by the civilians?

Chris Gibbs: Oh, I'm not sure where that was either, I’m-.

Reggieknow: Yeah, but he was gunned down, and that's why in-in Hustle and Motivate, the whole thing with the police-.

Chris Gibbs: Oh he’s like, “I was speed walking.”

Reggieknow: Yeah, yeah, it's like the [Fourth] and Broadway jogging.

Chris Gibbs: Yeah.

Reggieknow: And it's like, you know, it's-it’s the teaser. You can't jog.

Chris Gibbs: Yeah. So you know, what, a lot of that-that ended up, you know, we were halfway through writing it, we did a lot of re-writes for a number of reasons, but one of them would have been, “Hey, the things that were going on in society changed.” And I think like, for me, it's important to note, when I had the Jordan thing come about, I reached out to you a black creative. We said, “Hey, we would love to get this animated, like traditional Japanese style, but we also want to work within our community, and we found Arthell, you know, an owner of a black animation house based in Japan.” So we were already kind of on this track. It's kind of what we what we do. But we did do some rewrites with the story and make sure that we were talking about things that were relevant to us. And I think it’s really important so, you know like the main character Diz, he’s you know – he’s an ex-felon.

Reggieknow: Yeah.

Chris Gibbs: And you know, I think during the process more than – more than one person mentioned, “Oh, is that a little tone deaf, he’s an ex-felon,” like you know and you know, our answer was like-. Now these are the stories we need to tell, like this is an ex-felon trying to get his life back together and this is how -- kind of, you got to be able to laugh at how he's navigating the world to talk about it.

Reggieknow: It puts that issue out there. And what's great is like, he; the character, is delusional and things like that. And he is the total hustler, everything is a hustle. Like I haven't even -- the hustle and motivate. Like, I haven't even put out yet and build him towards it. But everything, this is the main character, everything he's saying he's lying about. Whatever it takes. He's just trying to get this job. And even while he's in the interview, he's still talking about, "Well I got something else lined up. If this doesn't work out, I'm going to open my sneaker site." So, yeah, it was it was interesting to -- and all that again to say, he’s not the main, he’s-he’s not, he’s not the -- it may look – it-it may look-look like he is the one that the joke is about, but actually, the real butt of the joke with the series is the system.

Chris Gibbs: Right.

Reggieknow: The system, and how it works is the real joke of this animal.

Chris Gibbs: And layers upon layers even the way – even -. You know, let's admit, this is something you've been working on for 10 years, one of the reasons why I wanted to do it because I wanted to bring light to this. And I thought, hey, here's a good platform. And one of the reasons why I believe what you're writing and producing hasn't become more popular is because the system has us wired to not appreciate intelligent humor, right?

Reggieknow: Yeah. It's starting to peek out. You know, when you think about, like, that series, Atlanta; like taking urban situations, but giving it an intelligent -- a more intelligent spin on it. Well, you know, when you think about things you and I personally like as far as like, you know the Colin's or Wes Anderson or the Quinn Tarantino's in the world, the clerks, you know. All these types of things that we'd like, over the years; tasteful things. And, honestly, I haven't seen that from an urban perspective yet. Like, let the world tell it. I mean, again, and like today, a lot of rap artists are using things like Seinfeld, you know, creatively. But let the machine tell it. We don't like those types of things. And they are incorrect.

Chris Gibbs: So why – and then you know like I said, it was you know, admittedly bringing you and Beth back into the fold again. But like, while that – all that was going on, Beth and I were talking about, "Well, what can we do? We're devastated right, yet again. We're devastated with what's happening to our community, what can we do?" And that's when Beth noted like, "Hey, we're not going to be able to, like our little shoe [at least] isn't able to fix the world. But we've got to start looking locally and acting locally."

Reggieknow: Yeah using, using you know to, yeah.

Chris Gibbs: And on a parallel track, you hit me up with, at the time you called it the 'do your own thing'.

Reggieknow: 'Do your own stuff'.

Chris Gibbs: Different style of things. That's what it was.

Reggieknow: And it's so funny, because you just did the panel discussion. I saw folks, and it's like, all what was being said, was about a 'do for yourself', you know, which is a-a-a-a term that you hear a lot. And the – you-you hear that term a-a lot with hip hop culture. And-and even that traces back to like, again the 5% nation, etc-etc. You know it's like for us ladies and gentlemen like why the do for self-thing was so ill is because-.

Chris Gibbs: Keep going but like, do first – we ended up rebranding that and calling it 'spread love' but it's the same thing which is why [crosstalk]. So we were evolving and giving back to the community through the release of the Jordans'.

Reggieknow: Yeah. But that thing of how us talking about the Jordan and the fours and the Jordan fours. I mean, the heyday of the Jordan four definitely is to do the right thing. So instead of do the right thing is like, "Yeah, we can do the right thing. But and to celebrate the times of entrepreneurship and who, what union is and Chris Kim's and like, a message and even this video." You know, it's like self being that important part. And doing [crosstalk] [1:36:50]-.

Chris Gibbs: And that kind of puts us back to like what you were [crosstalk] [1:36:52] like, not getting stuck in technology, you got to know it yourself.

Reggieknow: Indeed. And so doing that and, you know, so to make it the warmer version of that is spread love. And because that is what's needed. It is the only thing that can fix this human problem. And at the same time, you know, it had a – it's layered with a giveback element. It's doing it all. You know, it's just a warmer version of the 'do for self' thing.

Chris Gibbs: I want to wrap it up. Thank you for your time.

Reggieknow: Yes, sir. Because this can go for weeks.

Chris Gibbs: I know it and it's-it’s fun. But, just you know, when I was a – when I was a kid, and I had to learn how to write an essay, I was told, like, "Hey, you've got to do an intro, right? Introduce the reader to what you're about to talk about, then get to the meat of the essay and make your case. Then you got to do an outro. And in the outro, you remind people what the intro was." This is what this was all about, and now this is how I'm concluding. So, in conclusion, the whole reason we're here is for social studies. And the whole reason that we've been having this conversation and hopefully everyone's digested is to try and give some people some transparency, some knowledge, some access to the inside of having a career as a black man, in advertising, how you and-and you know; I'm not in advertising, but you know, I've shared some anecdotes myself, how we've been able to kind of navigate this world and be successful.

Reggieknow: Yeah. Okay.

Chris Gibbs: I want you to offer some parting words, if you if you will, keeping in mind that the people listening, this is what they're listening for. This is what we hope to be imparting to them.

Reggieknow: Well, thank you for that. Because this has been an important part of what we're talking about. This part is major, especially when it comes to a person of color. To quote prodigy from Mobb Deep [indiscernible] [1:39:52]. There's a war going on outside, that nobody is safe from. There is a war and this war is over your mind. And unfortunately, we are so emotionally out of control. We can't see or think. And I think that understanding that you as a creative or whatever profession it is you're trying to do, it is business first. And we have to learn where to put our emotions. And so a lot of what we're seeing around us, unfortunately, a lot of it is business. So i.e., like right now, some are upset with the Ice Cube thing with Trump.

But when you pull back the layers of the business part, and who's all involved business wise, it'll help you see what's happening. And by that, I just mean well, you have to -- it's just like with what we did with the Jordan thing. Anything you're doing or anything you're working on, well, the first thing you have to do is strip it down. Like, let me get to the bare bones first, let me lay all the pieces out. Stripping it down to bare bones so I can see all the pieces. And then to quote The Five Percenters, 'to build and destroy'; that's what that term means. You know, you destroy it to build it back up. Build or destroy.

Chris Gibbs: Build or destroy.

Reggieknow: So to build it back up. So-.

Chris Gibbs: Like not to cut you off, but that's another way like, you know, I'm a big fan of rebelling, right? Rebelling countercultures; I consider streetwear counterculture, at least I grew up when it was counterculture. But I've always tried to make sure to understand the thing I'm rebelling against and it is not just what I mean like inevitably breaking it down; as you say, to rebuild it and maybe rebuild it in another way. But I still need to understand what I'm rebelling against.

Reggieknow: In order to do that, you can't be in your emotions.

Chris Gibbs: Yeah.

Reggieknow: Like, that's-that's thinking, and knowing how to think and process. Knowing how to look at things. It's like, okay, so for instance, I can say-I can say, I'm a TV watcher. Because I can look at something on television and, or in news and say, "Oh, okay. I see what they want me to get from this. I get what they want my takeaway to be." But unfortunately, most absorb television. It's like they're just digesting it, and not breaking it down and stripping it down for-for what these things are. So what we did with Hustle and Motivate, it's like, it's saying this thing, but then when you start peeling things back -- and I'm proud that looking at all the feedback on the ad, many people got most of those layers we've put in there. They got-.

Chris Gibbs: [Indiscernible] [1:44:58] And I cut you off, I don't know if you were finishing off with your -- I stopped you on your-on your outro, my bad.

Reggieknow: No-no worries. But this still has all to do with trying to practice critical thinking. So I just want to give an example of critical thinking. So, so-called Columbus Day just passed. The President made a comment about it as well. Some people are saying this indigenous people day. And some are offensive this Columbus Day, right? Critical thinking is, well, you can't say indigenous people day because that's not a day. Because the – when – it's no record for how long they've been there. The Columbus thing, you can say is a day, because it's a day in which he arrived when he was lost at sea, thinking he was in India, thinking he hit India, which is why they said Indians. And it's like, "No, sir, this is not India."

But anyway, my point, just in that you can’t really say, no if we were going to say that well, we got a kind of mark of win because it's not a day. So this is just an example of critical thinking that we just have to practice, doing everything that we're doing. So, again, everything that you're touching, you're working on, approaching it with critical thinking. And unfortunately, we can't get to that because we're so plugged in to the machine, letting it lead us in places where as a creative and or whatever your pursuit is career wise. Like I can't -- let me not lose myself. And knowing how to bring who I am into what I'm doing. That was a key thing you mentioned earlier about with you, Beth and myself and how things we-we brought ourselves to the things we were working on. And it's funny, I work with a brand called LRNG, where the goal was that to help.

At the beginning of this assignment, students in urban areas aren't engaged as engaged in learning, right? And the teachers are losing their grip of the students. I said to them, "Well, interesting. Little do you know that well, you think your competition is," meaning I'm saying to the education world, they think their competition is other learning-learning curriculums, what is that?

Chris Gibbs: Curriculum?

Reggieknow: Yes. Other learning areas where actually, no, your competition is EA Sports, Supreme. This dumb [indiscernible] [01:49:19], that's-that's your competition. Your competition is, or what has their attention? And what-what are you doing to keep them engaged? You know, education world, you are not up to speed, up to par culturally. And so that-that you know, we didn't come to that by being in our phones or letting technology lead. We came to that by knowing how to observe and look around the right way. And so, again, the critical thinking, and not being led by emotion is -- that's-that's just a key start, in my opinion, to get to where we are, because then you're setting yourself up to bring something to the table that nobody else can bring. And that-that that's it.

Chris Gibbs: Regg, thank you man. I appreciate your time.

Reggieknow: Yes, sir. Yes sir.